Vol. 4-Interview-Washko

A. Varesano interviewing Mary Washko -5- 7/19/72 Tape 23-1 AV: When would you start in the morning? MW: As soon as you saw your way clear, yu know, to get to the tubs to wash. You had to get the breakfasts out and wash them dishes and all, and then get your clothes together. AV: When did you start, usually? MW: Well, sometimes when the children were real small, I'd get up and I'd be hald done before they'd be out of bed. AV: You mush have been up about five o'clock. MW: Five, five o'clock. And you had to go out in the hydrant, get your water, carry that in, heat it on the stove... AV: In what? MW: In a big boiler. AV: Just one boiler? MW: Well, yes, but that big boiler would hold about six or eight buckets of water. So you really had enough. AV: Yes. MW: And bakin' bread, you'd start the night before, until you made about eight loaves, it would be afternoon the next day. AV: Well, how did you finish washing the clothes then, after you heated up the water? MW: Well, then, when you washed them the second time, you had another tub with cold water in. You'd rinse them out. You would rinse them out good and squeeze them out, and hang them on the line. Of course there was a lot of water in there. In the summer it was all right, but in the winter sometimes you'd have icicles hangin' from them, til they'd melt. AV: What did you use for soap? MW: Well, usually it was Fels Naptha soap. I made some of my own soap. I made it out of drippings, like lard, old lard drippings, and you'd save that, and when you had about four pound of old dripping, I'd get a can of lye, and dissolve so much wather, you know, cold water, and dissolve the lye in cold water, because that thing boils. You'd stir that til it dissolved good. Then that would be hot. So you'd leave it til that would cool off, because that would boil if you put something in there. Then you'd get your drippings soft. AV: How did you do that? MW: On the stove. You'd put the can til it melted. It was lukewarm, but the drippings had to be like melted. And then you'd take these drippings, when the lye water was cold, and you'd be stirring these drippings, you know, the fat, into the lye with a stick. And you just kept on goin' and goin' and goin' til you got all your drippings in. AV: Then what happened? MW: Then you had to keep stirring that til that would start settling, like soap. And when you saw it start gettin' thick already, so then that you couldn't stir it no more, and you'd want it smooth, you'd quit. And you'd leave it sit til about the next day. It would be a little bit on the soft side, but you'd cut it in soap sizes, whatever size you wanted. Then you left it in there again for another day or two, and then it got so hard that you just used it. And that was really good soap for clothes, because it took the stains out. That lye really did. Then the trick. So you'd make soap, you'd make maybe twelve, fourteen pieces--you'd usually have a big square pan, I had an old one and I kept it for that purpose. AV: How big was it about? MW: Oh, I guess about two feet by one foot, it was an old, old time bread pan. AV: How high?

A.Varesano interviewing Mary Washko -6- 7/19/72 Tape 23-1 MW: About three, four inches. AV: And you put the soap in there... MW: To set. And then when it got set, then you'd cut it up and you had soap. AV: Where did you store the soap after you made it? MW: Well, we usually had this, what they call the summer kitchen, and in the winter it was always cool. You didn't have no fire in there, so you put it, and that kept them. Even a little bit heat--I used to take mine out and put paper in a cardboard box, a little cardboard box. And I'd pile the soap up on the top of another. AV: Newspaper? MW: Well, in them days you used more newspaper than anything. AV: So then it was this kind of soap that you used to wash the clothes with? MW: Yes, or scrub. It was good for scrubbing floors, because we had to scrub floors then. AV: Well, when you went to wash the clothes, how many--you boiled the clothes at one point. MW: Yes, then I'd chip some of that soap in the boiler so it would boil with that soap. And it took the stains out. AV: How long would that take to... MW: Well, you'd only leave it boil about ten minutes, that's all. And you had a big broomstick, you'd shift them around a little bit, and then when you got the first load done--you'd put the white on the stove to boil, then you'd be washing the second load, like towels and underclothes, and then the blue, the colored things, so by the time you go the colored things done you'd spillthe water out, then you'd take those off the stove and start all over again. You had to wash them twice. Then when you took those out, you'd throw a couple towels in or underclothes, into that water and leave them boil a little bit, because you couldn't take all that water out. You had to take a stick and pick them up out of the water. Then you put them in a tub and you just added cold water for the second load because the clothes were really hot. So. Then you washed them the second time, and you rinsed them and hung them up. AV: Which clothes would you wash twice? Everything? MW: Everything. We washed everything. AV: So, after you boiled it, and rinsed it once, and then.... MW: No, you don't rinse them. The first wash you don't rinse. It's the second wash, the second time you rinsed them, before you put them on the line. AV: You boiled them the first time, and then... MW: Yes, wash them again after you boiled them... AV: Washed them again in cold water... MW: Well, it would be warm from the clothes, you know, it would get pretty warm. AV: Then you'd throw them back in the boiler.... MW: No, no, that was after you took them out, the second time, then you'd wash them. Then you'd throw them in the rinse water, and then put them out. AV: By washing, you mean scrubbing on a board. MW: Yes, yes, yes. AV: So, first, you'd boil them, then you'd take them out and scrub them on the board. MW: Yeah... AV: Then you'd boil them again? MW: No, you scrubbed them first on the board, then you put them to boil, then you scrubbed them the second time, then you put them in the rinsing water, and out on the line. AV: That must have taken a while.

A. Varesano interviewing Mary Washko -7- 7/19/72 Tape 23-1 MW: Well, that's why I said you were washing clothes all day. AV: Did you really finish at three o'clock in the afternoon? MW: A lot of times, if you had carpets yet, like rag carpets, well, you had to put them on a bench and scrub them with a scrub brush. AV: Well, whose duty was it to wash the clothes? MW: The mother. AV: Didn't the girls help out at all, the young girls? MW: Well, when they got to a point where they were, say, maybe fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, you know. Well, like me, I had to scrub. AV: Yeah. MW: But now, like.... AV: You'd use a scrub board on it.... MW: Yeah, but, you take like my children already, they were lucky enough because I had, you know, a washer, so they didn't have to do it. And then, you'd iron with stove irons, heat your irons on the stove, and iron. AV: On the top, or directly on the coals? MW: Directly on the front, there, where the heat is the highest. You had a set of irons, and you'd heat them. AV: How many to a set? MW: Three. And you'd take and put your handle on there, and then you'd iron so much, and when that iron would get cool you'd put it there and you'd take the next one. But you'd always watch what one, where you put it, you know, so it wouldn't get too hot. AV: How could you tell if the iron was hot enough to use? MW: Oh, you tried it, on the side! Ha ha! You'd , or you'd burn it! I had a set. My daughter took them. I still have one in there, for a door stopper. AV: Did you use to sprinkle your clothes with water, to make it iron better? MW: Yes. AV: Did you just use a handful of water on it? MW: No, it was a regular cork you got, with a round top on. You could buy them, in them days. And you'd put in on there, and then you'd just-- when you didn't have that, you would just take a little, like a vegetable brush, I used to take. I used to kip that brush, and (she apparently gestures) with the clothes. AV: Sort of throw it over? MW: Yes. AV: Shake it over the clothes.... MW: Yes, and it got more evener. Because with the hand you'd get a little bit too wet. AV: What clothes would you treat with water like that? MW: Everything to iron. Towels, no or underclothes, you'd stretch, you know, press them up a little bit, but the real good things, you know, like dresses, slips, aprons, blouses, shirts, well all that you'd have to... AV: Who taught you to do that? MW: My mother. AV: Sprinkling and ironing? MW: Yes. We'd watch what she done, and we done that. Yes. AV: What about cleaning the house? When did you clean the house?

A.Varesano interviewing Mary Washko -8- 7/19/72 Tape 23-1 MW: Oh, you'd clean the house--you practically had to sweep it every day. But when it would come to Friday or Saturday, that's when you done the pretty good cleanin'. You'd get down on your knees and scrub your floors, and give it a pretty good cleanin', so it would be, what they'd say, for the weekend. Because Saturday was another day, if you had to do bakin', you couldn't bake and you couldn't scrub. It was too much work. And Saturday was always the day you'd make maybe a pie or two and a cake, and I baked bread. AV: You said bread was a long affair to go through. What was it like? MW: Well, you'd make your sponge in the night... AV: The what? MW: The sponge what they'd call it, with the yeast. You'd put some flour in there, and I'd put some sugar, dissolve your yeast, you could put an egg or two in, all depends what, some people make it different ways. And then you'd get water, or you could boil a potato, and mash it right in the potato water, that helped it raise, and you'd put that in, well, you'd figure out just about how much this-here flour you'd need, because when you make bread so often, you don't measure nothin' no more. And you'd make that like a sponge pretty thick.... AV: When would you make that? MW: Before you went to bed. AV: What time was that? MW: Oh, ten, eleven, twelve. Then you'd get up early in the morning, and sponge would raise, you know, maybe double, or even more. Then you'd get your flour again, and you'd get your salt.... AV: How much yeast did you put in the sponge? MW: Well, when I bought the yeast, I'd put one yeast cade, the smaller. Of course now they have larger ones, so it's only a half. But in my days, I made my yeast, I'd put a cup in. And then you'd put that yeast in there, well then that would help it raise. But then in the morning you'd put your sugar, your salt, your water, and the rest of your flour, and you'd have to stick with that for about an hour. AV: Knead it for an hour? MW: For about an hour. If you wanted to make about eight loaves, yes, so it would, ah--then you'd put a little bit of butter, or lard, or whatever you had. And you had to knead it, boy, til it was nice and smooth, and your hands got clean. My mother would always say, You're not done, dough's stickin' to your hands! And you know, when you got done with that, that dough was sittin' there, it would feel like velvet. You'd get it done. Then you put it on the side to raise, raise about double, you'd punch it down, leave it raise again, then you'd get your pans ready, and you'd pan it, you know, into loaves. Then it had to raise again. When it got to a certain height, then you baked it. So, it was a long process. AV: When the bread came out of the oven, did you treat it with anything? MW: Not all the time. Sometimes you could put a little butter on, sometimes before I took mine out, I would just take cold water and sort of wash it off and leave it in there again, it would give it a shiny look. That's all. If you wanted, you could put a little butter on. AV: I watched Mrs. Timko bake breas, and she made the sign of the cross three times during the process. Did you use that? MW: (She chuckles) Yeah, well, we're so used to that, I do that myself. It's just feel that if you do it, you think your bread's gonna come out good. It's like a belief you have, you know. But you're so used to doin' that, that it just comes automatically already. AV: When do you do it in the process?

A.Varesano interviewing Mary Washko -9- 7/19/72 Tape 23-1 MW: Well, sometimes when you got done stiffening it, you put it there, or when you're stickin' it in the oven. You'd just do it. AV: What did you do? MW: Just make the sign of the cross and close the ovens. AV: And did you say the words, too? MW: Yeah, if you want to, you'd say, you know, the sign of the cross--Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. AV: And did you make the sign of the cross on the back of a loaf before you cut it? MW: Yeah. When you'd start a new loaf. AV: How did you do it? MW: Well, with a knife. I'd just make a cross, with the knife, before I cut it. AV: Did you say the words then, too? MW: Well, you do and you don't . If nobody's around, you say them. If you have company and you're talking, you just make the this-here, because everybody, you know, is around. AV: If the family is around, would you say it? MW: Yeah, if nobody is talking to you, you know what I mean, if you're this-- here, you say it. Yes. AV: Do you think it helped? MW: Well... AV: I mean, it's a good custom? MW: It's a good custom, it just feels that you believe in the Lord more, and you think, well, you're askin' him for help or something. That's how I only take it. But, like I said, when you're so used to it, I found out, and my bread come pretty nice all the time. AV: That's what Mrs. Timko was saying, that her mother actually believed that this helped the thing coming out right, whether you make the right decisions you know, catch it in time or not, but, did you hear that, too? MW: Yeah. I made bread last year for a picnic, my daughter had, around Philly, and I had the regular loaf pans, you know, and I tried to make them about even--you know they were sellin' that bread for two dollars a loaf, and my daughter said it took ten minutes and the ten loaves were gone? And one time I made nut bread, and poppa seed bread, and they wre sellin' three-inch slices, and the slices where only about that big, because I don't like to make the big this-heres, I make them narrow--they were sellin' fifteen cents a slice, and she said they were sellin' them like mad. So! In the big cities they don't get too much of that. Then when you get it, why, you have no problem to get rid of it. AV: Yes. I know when I cut Helen's load, she had me do that, the sign of the cross, on the back, with a knife. That's a pretty common custom. MW: Yeah, it seems that, I don't know if everybody does it, but like, you know, everybody is raised in these little towns here, it seems that they all know the idea of doin' that. AV: Was that Slavic custom? MW: I really wouldn't know, because whether you are Slavish or Polish, or what they say Byzantine Rite, or something, well it just seems that everybody does it, you know, if you go from house to house, you see it done. AV: Annie was telling me one story about how in Europe, well, it's a story, like, a lady didn't make a sign of the cross, and her bread didn't rise.... MW: Ha! Ha! Well, they come up with them stories, but, like, there's a lot, you can't say it's true because you weren't there, you know? And people that come from there, they come and say them things, and if you believe it, you believe it....