Volume 01: July 11, 1932–July 8, 1938




7/11/32 - Reg. B/T


OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR, Raleigh, N. C., July 11, 1932.

The first meeting of the consolidated Board of Trustees of the University was held at ten a. m. on the above date, His Excellency, Governor O. Max Gardner presiding.

The roll was called by Mr. London and the following Trustees were present:

A. T. Allen Sidenham B. Alexander Alexander B. Andrews Paschal S. Boyd Dudley Bagley Kemp D. Battle J. A. Rridger Mrs. Minnie Mclver Brown Marvin K. Blount J. L. Becton C. F. Cates W. G. Clark R. M. Cox F. H. Coffey Mrs. Laura W. Cone Stuart W. Cramer Josephus Daniels Arthur M. Dixon Claudius Dockery John G. Dawson Frank Dunlap Sam J. Erwin, Jr. R. R. Eagle Richard T. Fountain C. W. Gold A. H. Graham George C. Green Junius D. Grimes Mrs. E. C. Gregory J. M. Gamewell John Sprunt Hill Rt. Rev. J. M. Horner Luther T. Hartsell John W. Hinsdale A. A. Hicks Charles A. Jonas Kemp B. Lewis L. J. Lawrence Mrs. E. L. McRee Henry M. London R. E. Little J. E. Millis Rev. Charles E. Maddry Rev. J. Thomas Mangum Dr. J. G. Murphy Walter Murphy William D. Merritt Harriss Newman D. Reeves Noland E. S. Parker, Jr. Judge J. J. Parker R. N. Page Haywood Parker R. Grady Rankin Charles G. Rose Henry M. Robins Miss Easdale Shaw George Stephens Mrs. Loula McIver Scott Fred I. Sutton Lawrence Sprunt W. T. Shore Mrs. W. W. Tomlinson Irvin B. Tucker C. W. Tillett, Jr. J. Kenyon Wilson Graham Woodard Francis D. Winston Leslie Weil W. C. Woodard Charles Whedbee Clarence Poe

Presidents Graham, Brooks and Foust were also present,

Governor Gardner welcomed the members of the Board of Trustees and gave a brief history of the origin of the idea of consolidating the University, The State College and the North Carolina College for Women and stated that no step had been taken without careful consideration and due deliberation. He said: "At the time I was a student at State College the standards were not very high. We had no high school system in the State. It was almost impossible to establish standard application to the state. While I was a student af the University of North Carolina I was invited to speak at State College. In my address I referred to some day in which consolidation would come to pass

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The consolidation bill was introduced in 1931, after being carefully prepared. I made a radio address to the people of the State on the question and following that I appeared before a joint session of the General Assembly and delivered a special message on the question. This bill was carefully amended by the Legislature and passed the House with three against, and the Senate with four against.

Due to the vision of Senator Whedbee in cooperation with the Presidents of the throe institutions, instead of delaying until 1930, they thought consolidation would be safest in 1931, instead of later. No step was taken without the utmost consideration. Everything that could be foreseen dealing with these institutions has been regarded and preserved.

A commission of twelve members charged with definite duties was appointed and each member attended all of the meetings. At the first meeting Dr. Kendrick, Dr. Wilson, Dr. Brooks and Mr. Jackson were appointed on a subcommittee to formulate a line of procedure. They recommended that we should secure the most disinterested and skillful men in higher education to whom this study should be entrusted. Dr. Cooper and Dr. Kelly were the first men selected who went over the whole subject with tnem and with caution. They said there was only one man in America they thought equal to the task and recommended that the Commission ask Dr. Works to be Director and that he select the most competent men available to help him. Each institution cooperated with Dr. Works and his associates. We have lived within the set-up appropriated but Dr. Works was in no way limited or restrained but was offered a full unhampered field. From his report the Commission worked out what you have in the report of the Commission on University Colsolidation.

The thing before this board today is set forth in section 9, chapter 202, Public Laws, 1951. This Consolidation Commission has gone into every phase and feature of this problem and by a unanimous vote presents to you today its recommendations. Today as we approach the fixing of the budget we are confronted with an economic condition that I do not like to refer to, but must in order that you may get the full impression of the wisdom and foresight that led to this consolidation. If this group of men had not put their heads together and consolidated their wisdom and experience to tackle this problem on a scientific basis, it could not have been accepted. It is so much finer and more useful for the future of this State that this happened in 1931 instead of 1935. I am afraid that the General Assembly would not have had the scientific knowledge to put this over. This is a year that challenges every power of this State to meet it. The General Assembly appropriated more money than could be collected. The responsibility of reconciling things was put on the Governor. After cutting $3,000,000 there is a deficit of four million. There will be two million less revenue collected this year than was collected last year, according to A. J. Maxwell.

This university consolidation is almost providential in its nature. These three institutions can be envisioned and shall be, not as competitors, but shall be looked at and contemplated and considered as one unit for the advancement of higher education in North Carolina. We would have a deficit of $13,900,000, and employees would have scrip instead of money but for the cuts against the appropriations of the General Assembly, So long as I am Governor of North Carolina the credit and character of this State will be preserved. I honestly believe there never was a time when higher education ever met more favorable opportunity for being carried through and that these three college presidents will add new lustre to the crown of higher education in North Carolina."

Dr. Works then addressed the Board setting forth the manner of procedure of the committee speaking as follows:

"A survey committee was chosen composed of people from outside the State, because what you wanted was an outside point of view. We had on the survey committee Pres. McVey, Dr. Ford, Dr. Wickenden, Dr. Stevenson, Dr. Cartwright, Dr. Judd, and Dr,

Last edit almost 2 years ago by University Libraries, UNC-Chapel Hill


Gray. They visited such institutions as necessary to carry out their responsibilities and presented their report to the committee of three - Dr. McVey, Dr. Ford, and Dr. Works, who discussed this report with them and with all the material formally made a report.

A group of consultants was selected in order that we might have a point of view of men not involved in the study: Dr. Coffman Dr. Elliott, Dr. Suzzalo and Dr. Kelly and these men have given their best thought to this report.

At first we tried as completely as possible to wipe out any personal feeling so far as any individual was concerned. We felt that what the people of North Carolina wanted was a frank and honest statement of what we thought would be the best thing for North Carolina.

Second, we tried to get a state point of view. We must not let the point of view, the ambition of any institution or person determine what we tell the people of North Carolina. Unfortunately teachers colleges were not included in this study, therefore, we were not able to give a complete view with reference to these institutions. We have an incomplete picture in the sense that we cannot separate these institutions from the other institutions, because the three institutions are teacher training institutions which make factors in this picture.

Third, we tried to take a look into the future and tried to predict what would likely be the needs and what would be of greater service to the people of the State in the next twenty-five, fifty or seventy-five years. We have not made this report because we like to do it, but because we honesty believe this should be told the people of North Carolina. We are interested in thinking of what the people of the State will say in a number of years. What you do with it is your business, but we do feel that we. should tell you frankly what we felt should be done in this State.

At the first meeting of the Commission a complete agreement was had that we were to have a free hand in making the report. This has prevailed throughout the whole study. No individual or institution has tried to influence any member of this committee at any time. Complete and hearty cooperation has been given and feelings have been cordial. Therefore, it woul be very much easier to make a report that would leave every one happy.

Our suggestions, not in detail, but briefly:

Nothing said about large board. If we were making recommendation would not recommend a board of 102, but have talked with a number of North Carolina people who have seen it and you popple probably like it. Therefore nothing to say about it. It is contrary to administrative conditions generally. We suggest this, however, that you should as in the past form a rather small executive committeee and give to it very large powers. Also, I like to caution you that you cannot unite these three units overnight. It takes a long time and requires men and women of outstanding ability and personality. When you take three institutions like these you cannot unite them overnight. You have a large board of one hundred and remember it is this large board background out of which must come this spirit of these three institutions. There is almost going to be the danger that certain members of the board will be thought of as trustees of three institutions when that is not the truth. Each of you is a trustee of the University System. Do not lose sight of this fact. Therefore you should operate through one executive committee and not through three committees. Several suggested a very small executive committee with large powers. Also one president was suggested. The Commission chose to recommend to you that instead of using the term "president" you use the term "chancellor" and continue to use "president"for each one of the executives of the local branch. The matter should be dealt with by you. We did suggest the office of comptroller, to be responsible through the chancellor for the fiscal affairs and also one dean or director of the summer session and also of extension work.

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The faculty is an important factor and their point of view should have consideration. We recommended that the president should have an executive council whose members are chosen for one year.

The chief executive should be called a chancellor - a person who all the time is to think of the new university in terms of the entire state. The executive committee is to think all the time of the needs of this state for higher education in terms of the state. We are under no restrictions so far as law is concerned. First, we have suggested this: that gradually there should be transferred all work from the institution at Raleigh to Chapel Hill that is, above the junior college level. The junior college program represents the first two years of work in the institutions. First two years have not been as definitely organized but will ultimately take hold in this state. All of this work above the first two years should be transferred from Raleigh to Chapel Hill. That does not mean that the first two years at Raleigh should be inferior. They should be superior. They may go on to the completion of their four year program at Chapel Hill after two years here. Why have we suggested as radical a change as that, you ask. In the first place, you can't have a great school of engineering without a large development of the basic sciences, Chemistry, physics, biological sciences and mathematics must be highly developed for a good school of engineering. We were satisified as a result of conference that the state wanted a higher school of engineering in North Carolina. transfer engineering to Chapel Hill. Or as an alternative, develop your mathematics, physics, chemistry and biological sciences at Raleigh. This will call for considerable expansion and represent laege expenditure in dollars and cents to maintain the quality you should have at this institution. Could transfer the work in science above junior college level from Chapel Hill to Raleigh. Build up at Chapel Hill the law school, the professional school, based primarily on humanities and social sciences involves some serious problems. Two-year medical courses would need to be located here with sciences. The most outstanding university library in the South is at Chapel Hill. A good library is nor built up overnight.

Twenty-six institutions in Georgia to consider. One little library not exceeding three or four 'hundred hooks in one college. They are considering taking over the library of an other college which is going into bankruptcy. At least ninety, per cent of the books will not be any use to them at all. The great University Library of the South is at Chapel Hill.

We believe as a committee that there is very great value in having young men and young women who are entering different lines of state's activities on the same campus together. Get associations and points of view that are very valuable. Very valuable for prospective lawyers, business men and women to be educated on the same campus. There is one thing we did not call your attention to. You might maintain strong work in science both at Raleigh and Chapel Hill but in view of the financial situation which exists in this state, the committee did not believe it was justified in making any such recommendation because the state does not have population or resources, ano in the second place, you must remember that this change we are talking about will last over a long period of time. Not a question of dollars and cents, but what will be saved in the future, and what is more important, the quality of work done. A further factor in engineering situation: In Dr. Wickenden's judgment, the outstanding school of engineering in the South is at Chapel Hill so far as quality of work is concerned. When it comes to sanitary engineering, there is no institution in the United States doing better work in that line. You cannot effect a spiritual unit of widely institutions overnight. Wipe out the Chapel Hill school of engineering if you chose, but do not transfer it. The people of this state would hesitate a long time before disposing of the outstanding school of engineering of the South.

We recommend the transfer from Greensboro of all professional education above junior college level except the training of teachers and workers. In our judgment,

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as a result of what I grant was relatively superficial inspection, we think you are getting a better quality of teacher training work than in teacher training colleges.\ We are satisified as a result of careful study of conditions in this state that you should continue to place increasing emphasis upon the quality of work done in institutions of higher learning. Slow process. Again, we say frankly that the training of teachers should be continued at the Woman's College, both high school and elementary teaching. Better there than at others.

The training of library workers should be transferred from Greensboro to Chapel Hill. We even raised questions as to whether or not the state should continue a library school at either place. Demands are limited for library workers. The fact that the University has the best University library in the South puts it in better position to train librarians.

The University should drop the training of elementary school teachers. Should continue to train high school teachers. In this new University of North Carolina, there should be more leaders exerted in this field of education. More teachers, superintendents, supervisors should be trained in this state than heretofore. Should have serious consideration from this board.

One other thing that might have been suggested but was afraid you might think it was a little too radical. We were not so sure ourselves on this matter. If I am fortunate to come back to North Carolina in twenty-five years, I would not be surprised to see it in effect. All work below the junior college level should be dropped at Chapel Hill. It should be a true university in name and actual function.

There are a few things that are important. One is that these adjustments should be gradual so far as major adjustments, especially the transfer of agriculture and engineering. We do not think you can do it tomorrow. It would not be wise. To house engineering over there would call for one new building. The first new building we put up there will be this new building. They will be gradually transferred there.

Agriculture is of basic importance. Arguments for engineering hold for agriculture. Strong departments of science are necessary. Agriculture, after all, finds its largest usefulness in the science of application. We think ultimately you will transfer all work in agriculture there. You may say we had it there at one time. It had to be taken away because they were not greatly in sympathy with it. More than likely there has been a great deal of conservatism at Chapel Hill. I think a great university has to tie itself up with every great interest the state has. It does not find any basic industry beneath its dignity. Fine opportunity for research, extension and instruction in all of those fields. The faculty and most every one has taken too conservative an attitude on these questions. They should take a broader view.

If these recommendations which we have made were not accompanied by a changed point of view so far as the faculty is concerned, we might in the long run have done a disservice to the people of North Carolina. The time is past to be bound by tradition.

Another question faced was the request for a school of veterinary medicine. We recommend that you do not establish one, It has been studied by two large organizations in the last two years and they point out that on the basis of needs of the South, there is probably place for one good school in the South. There are forms of professional education where the demands are so limited that the state is not justified in entering it. Veterinary science and medicine is one. You people may come to the conclusion in this state that you might not want to continue even the two year course in medicine. All figures indicate that what the state should be doing instead of giving consideration to professional forms of education is giving condideration to the establishment of some scholarships. It would be better than to produce at home different forms of education. Higher education is more expensive

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